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<body><div><br></div><div style="margin-left: 3ch;"><div>I everyone, I think we have nothing about it. <img src="cid:1496240396.7220.1.camel@yahoo.es" alt=":-O"> </div><div>So ... somebody have a plan ? <img src="cid:1496240396.7220.1.camel@yahoo.es" alt=":-O"> </div><div><br></div><div>-- Amanda Osvaldo</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div>On Mon, 2017-05-29 at 00:04 +0200, Philippe Saadé (ESI INENDI) wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite">
Dear All,<br>
<br>
I took some time to jump in the discussion due to the fact that I
wanted to get a better understanding of the current status of your
discussions, a better understanding of Mandar's profile and
expertise, and also what is easy/hard to do with Scilab to meet some
serious and legitimate demands from Scilab's users.<br>
<br>
As I am the last to join the discussion, I will voluntarily reset my
mind and start again the discussions with you so that we can try to
structure the project and converge quickly on an achievable list of
goals for this GSoC.<br>
<br>
For that purpose, I would like to list a series of questions on
which we need to share a mutual list of answers and common
understanding.<br>
This should serve as a basis to decide what to do, how and when.<br>
<br>
So, feel free to fill in...<br>
<br>
<ol>
<li>Scilab has a way to use Python : PIMS. Originaly created in
August 2014.</li>
<ol>
<li>How mature do you think it is?</li>
<li>How compatible is it with the potential need of using
existing Python-based ML framework from within Scilab?</li>
<li>How easy/hard would it be for Mandar to pursue what has been
done here so that using the ML frameworks from Scilab would be
working well?</li>
</ol>
<li>Data Management. I think the questions related to the actual
size of the data that would be possibly handled by Scilab's
users is key. Many ML methods (not necessarily "Deep" ones) need
to be trained on large data sets. It doesn't mean that
everything has to sit in RAM during training or general
pre-processing but it must be possible to handle large data
sets.</li>
<ol>
<li>Do we use only "pointers" from Scilab to give an access to
the real data structures that are used by the ML frameworks?</li>
<li>Do we want to integrate part or all of the data structures
that are useful, as native Scilab data structures?</li>
<li>Do we consider that the execution of ML algorithms should be
designed and architectured in a way that it is done "remotely"
from the perspective of Scilab?<br>
</li>
</ol>
<li>Use Cases. We need to list some use cases that are typical of
what Scilab users do and that make the usage of ML an exciting
perspective. If we can not demonstrate that ML within Scilab is
possible, easy and really useful on these Use cases, I am not
sure we will have reached the main target of that GSoC
opportunity.<br>
Can we list use cases together?<br>
I will start by items some but your input is important here.</li>
<ol>
<li>image classification</li>
<li>object recognition in images and video</li>
<li>Data Driven Industrial Process Control</li>
<li>Anomaly Detection</li>
<li>Dimensionality / Model reduction</li>
<li>etc.<br>
<br>
</li>
</ol>
</ol>
For sure, these questions do not cover all the important topics for
this "ML Toolbox" project but this is a way to bootstrap.<br>
As we know, we need to be active and efficient for the 30th of May!<br>
<br>
Thanks for your feedback and feel free to share your point of view.<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="FR">Cordialement – Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#F15A22" lang="EN-GB">Philippe SAADÉ<b><br>
</b></span><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0070C0"><a href="http://www.esi-group.com/" style="text-decoration:none;"></a> </span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0070C0" lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 18/05/2017 à 21:50, Amanda Osvaldo a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1495137055.8877.1.camel@yahoo.es" type="cite">
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<div>Hi everybody, can I made some questions ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First, at all, I really agree that SciLab needs a Machine
Learning toolbox.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, I'm pretty critical about Scilab in your
limitations.</div>
<div><b>I see very potential in the software but require a reform
in your infrastructure.</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, my questions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-left: 3ch;">
<div>How large are we talking about the training dataset in
scilab ?</div>
<div>Even with Tensorflow compatibility if you need to put all
the dataset into the RAM I fear the toolbox utility will be
very limited.</div>
<div>In another words: The toolbox will can handle a 250GB
dataset or just a few GBs from a desktop ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have I read right ?</div>
<div>We are talking about to integrate Scilab and tensorflow or
scikit-learn ?</div>
<div>I think it's a good idea, I just whant to know if I'm
interpreting right.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Somebody have some idea how to handle this project in a
software engineering perspective?</div>
<div>Just to ensure the tests and code quality.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- Amanda Osvaldo</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Thu, 2017-05-18 at 16:01 +0000, Yann Debray wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Dear Caio, Dhruv and Amanda,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">I would like to include my colleague Philippe
Saadé to the exchanges on Machine Learning for Scilab.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">He is an experienced mathematician working
with us at ESI Group, and has an interesting vision on the
subject.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">He will be scientific advisor and mentor for
a joint internship on Machine learning starting mid june.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" id="OWAAM555CD43997D4F749B9D590C2C0BA3D1AZ" href="mailto:philippe.saade@esi-group.com"><span style="font-family:Calibri;text-decoration:none">@Philippe
Saadé (ESI INENDI)</span></a>: Could you maybe share
with us your view on the subject? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">We can keep this exchange public if it is
alright with you all, since I believe our success on the
subject will depend on our capacity to centralize and
merge our community efforts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">You can all collaborate on the project on our
forge:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://forge.scilab.org/index.php/p/machine-learning-toolbox/">http://forge.scilab.org/index.php/p/machine-learning-toolbox/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Yours<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Yann @ Scilab<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">De : </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Amanda
Osvaldo <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lambdasoftware@yahoo.es"><lambdasoftware@yahoo.es></a><br>
<b>Date : </b>vendredi 28 avril 2017 à 01:03<br>
<b>À : </b>List dedicated to the development of Scilab
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dev@lists.scilab.org"><dev@lists.scilab.org></a>, Yann Debray
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Yann.Debray@esi-group.com"><Yann.Debray@esi-group.com></a>, Dhruv Khattar
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dhruvk1996@gmail.com"><dhruvk1996@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Objet : </b>Re: [Scilab-Dev] Machine Learning
Toolbox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Caio, sorry for the late.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>I think we should ask ourselves what
SciLAB's focus and what audience are.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>I feel a lack of knowing what users
of Scilab seek.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Me, for example, I want to do
everything from protyping to running the script on
hundreds of Intel Xeon servers with the least possible
effort.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Even with less effort than it would
have if the script were built in Python.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am sure that new data structures will
expand the use of SciLAB.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But what advantage will this bring to
users?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Python, as example, have already
optimized data structures and libraries.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- Amanda Osvaldo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, 2017-04-26 at 14:32 -0300, Caio
Souza wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have been thinking about the
usability of the toolbox and independent of which
algorithms we are going to have, would be interesting
to have some simplified structure (like TensorFlow).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Despite it being a lot of work to
have such structure, (data, model, cost function,
minimizer), it would make the toolbox easy to use and
extend, having minimum impact to the usability.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">IMHO, this is something that should
be defined before any coding starts, and also well
explained to the student.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would like to hear from you what
do you think, so we can start a discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Caio SOUZA<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dev@lists.scilab.org">dev@lists.scilab.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/dev">http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/dev</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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