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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=FR link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Marc,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dans le premier fichier que j’ai envoyé, il y avait les deux schémas dans le même ficher xcos…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Merci pour ta réponse<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Effectivement, en repassant avec des intégrales ça fonctionne. Mais pas terrible à mettre en place avec les étudiants a partir des équations différentielles issues du schéma électrique.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Un beau logiciel comme scilab, n’est pas capable de faire ce que faisant très bien notre bon vieux didacsyde !<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bonne journée<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Florian Benardeau<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Marc DERUMAUX [mailto:marc.derumaux@free.fr] <br><b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 15 octobre 2013 13:52<br><b>À :</b> upsti@listes.ens-cachan.fr; Florian Benardeau<br><b>Cc :</b> SCILAB Liste<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [upsti] suite : Xcos - Algebraic loop<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Florian,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Tout à l'heure tu avais bien envoyé le schéma électrique...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Pour le schéma bloc, le problème semble tout de même numériquement mal posé. En effet, à t=0, l'échelon se retrouve en sortie de sommateur, donc devient un dirac en sortie de la dérivée, le dirac se retrouve dans la sortie, et donc dans le premier sommateur : il sera donc à nouveau dérivé....<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Les équations que tu cherches à représenter graphiquement sont certainement à mettre en forme autrement pour que le problème soit numériquement tenable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>La dérivée d'une manière générale est à manipuler avec précaution au sens où il est possible de créer des systèmes non physiques avec. Les sytèmes dynamiques peuvent généralement s'exprimer à l'aide d'integrateurs de la même façon, ce qui conduit à un système numériquement bien posé.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Sauf erreur, en partant de ton schéma, on peut le reformuler sous la forme du schema ci-joint, à base d'intégrateurs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Bonne journée,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Marc<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'><br><br>Le mardi 15 octobre 2013 12:48:34 Florian Benardeau a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>C’est bien le schéma bloc qui pose problème… pas le schéma électrique.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>L’algebraic loop n’apparait que dans le schéma bloc !<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'><img width=680 height=258 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01CEC9B9.8AC76860"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>La même modélisation sur notre bon vieux didacsyde ne pose aucun problème. Faut-il y revenir ?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Merci d’avance<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'>Florian Benardeau<o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='margin-left:30.0pt'><tr><td width=87 valign=top style='width:65.25pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p align=center style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:center;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><img width=70 height=31 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.png@01CEC9B9.8AC76860"><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=307 valign=top style='width:230.25pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><a href="mailto:Florian.Benardeau@ac-nancy-metz.fr">Florian.Benardeau@ac-nancy-metz.fr</a><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'>06.06.57.64.72<o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><b>CPGE</b> PTSI/PT*<o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><b>Lycée Henri Loritz</b><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'>29 rue des Jardiniers<o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'>54000 Nancy<o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:9.0pt;margin-right:30.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>