<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>Hi Samuel, <br></div><div><br></div><div>In fact I've not been using matlab for more than 10 years, so I try to understand this as well. <br></div><div><br></div><div>The input tilde is still abit confusing for me as well, I am trying to understand its' usage as this page: <a href="https://octave.org/doc/v4.4.1/Ignoring-Arguments.html" target="_blank">https://octave.org/doc/v4.4.1/Ignoring-Arguments.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>function val = pick2nd (~, arg2) <br></div><div> val = arg2;<br></div><div>endfunction<br></div><div><br></div><div>I can't see the reason why the input need to ignored in this case, is it defined but not being user due to bad user overlooked it? or is it neglected and the default value would be used?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Then I find this : <a href="https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25204074/correct-use-of-tilde-operator-for-input-arguments" target="_blank">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25204074/correct-use-of-tilde-operator-for-input-arguments</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><b><i>"The tilde is only for function declaration. Matlab's mlint recommends to replace unused arguments by ~. The result is a function declared like this function output = MyFunction(a, b, ~, c). This is a very bad practice. </i></b><b><i><br></i></b></div><div><b><i><br></i></b></div><div><b><i>Since you have a function where the parameters are optional, you must call the function with empty arguments output=MyFunction(str1,str2,[],[],...,true)."</i></b><br></div><br><div data-zbluepencil-ignore="true" style="" class="zmail_extra">It sound to me that the input tilde is suggested by the matlab mlint to improve the code so that the unused variable need not to pass into the function, and to improve memory management? <br><br>So there are 2 possibilities for the input tilde :<br><br>1. used to replace unused variable in the input which defined by user, but not being used. So the mlint recomment to replace with tilde, it could be be remove possibly due to the project has been calling the functions for many time, and changing the 4th to 3rd argument might need to change a lot of codes. In this case, the %unused would be good. <br><br>2. Tilde used to tell the function to use default value, then replacing it with % unused might cause error. <br><br>Think we need some x-matlaber to confirm which case. <br><br>Thanks again.<br><br>rgds,<br>CL <br><br><br><br><div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn1">---- On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:36:01 +0800 <b>Samuel Gougeon <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:sgougeon@free.fr">sgougeon@free.fr</a>></b> wrote ----<br></div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 6px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"><div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix">Hello Chin Luh,<br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix"><br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix">Thanks a lot for your input.<br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix"><br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix">Both cases -- input and output will
have to be converted --, since the converter is also made to
convert (sets of) functions definitions, not only scripts.<br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix"><br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix">About the input case: Steven's answer
is still not really clear to me. Doing some tests on Octave, we
must anyway provide some input at calling time when ~ is used as
default input in the definition. AFAIU, this ~ could just be to
make sure that no variable name used inside the function matches
the name of the input argument in the function definition, since
"~" alone can't be actually used as variable's name. In this case,
for Scilab, any input ~ could be replaced with an improbable
variable name like "%unused" or "%kwzxq", and that should do it.<br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix"><br></div><div class="x_-860490224moz-cite-prefix">Please, correct me if someone
understands something else.<br> <br> Best regards<br> Samuel<br></div><br>Le 26/11/2019 à 03:33, Chin Luh Tan a écrit :<br> <div><br></div><p><br></p></div>_______________________________________________<br>users mailing list <br><a target="_blank" href="mailto:users@lists.scilab.org">users@lists.scilab.org</a> <br><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users">http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users</a> <br><blockquote><div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10.0pt;"><div>Hi Samuel, <br></div><div><br></div><div>I think your assumption likely correct on the input and the
output using ~<br></div><div><br></div><div><a target="_blank" href="https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/288016-tilde-doesn-t-work-for-ignoring-my-inputs">https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/288016-tilde-doesn-t-work-for-ignoring-my-inputs</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>"<br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);"><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">You </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">can</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> use tilde to ignore input arguments when you </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">define</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> the function.</span></span><br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);"><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">You </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">cannot</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> use tilde to ignore input arguments when you </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">call</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> the function.</span></span><br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);"><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">You </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">cannot</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> use tilde to ignore output arguments when you </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">define</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> the function.</span></span><br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);"><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">You </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">can</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> use tilde to ignore output arguments when you </span></span><b><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">call</span></b><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> the function.</span></span><br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);"><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">If you want to be able to specify only the third argument, there must be some way for your function to disambiguate the one-input call from a call that specifies only the third input. Usually in MathWorks function this is done by specifying [] for the arguments for which the user doesn't want to specify. In that case the code would use the default value if either </span></span><span class="font" style="font-family:Menlo, Monaco, Consolas, "Courier New", monospace"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">nargin</span></span><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> is too small or if </span></span><span class="font" style="font-family:Menlo, Monaco, Consolas, "Courier New", monospace"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">nargin</span></span><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> is large enough and the specified input argument </span></span><span class="font" style="font-family:Menlo, Monaco, Consolas, "Courier New", monospace"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">isempty</span></span><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">.</span></span><br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);"><span class="x_-860490224textBox" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span class="x_-860490224textWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box;">"</span></span><br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">From what I could think off, mat2sci conversion to replace ~ at the output arguments should always be safe. As for the input, since the tilde could not be used as input when calling function, I think there should not be any cases that need to be implemented in conversion?<br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Thanks.<br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Regards,<br></div><div class="x_-860490224paragraphNode x_-860490224wrappable" style="box-sizing: border-box;font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;white-space: pre-wrap;margin: 2.0px 10.0px 10.0px 4.0px;line-height: 1.5;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 14.0px;min-height: 17.0px;overflow: auto;font-style: normal;font-weight: 400;letter-spacing: normal;orphans: 2;text-indent: 0.0px;text-transform: none;widows: 2;word-spacing: 0.0px;background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">CL<br></div><div><br></div><div class="x_-860490224zmail_extra"><div><br></div><div>---- On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 04:20:52 +0800 <b>Samuel Gougeon <a target="_blank" href="mailto:sgougeon@free.fr" class="x_-860490224moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><sgougeon@free.fr></a></b> wrote ----<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 6.0px;margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px;"><div><div class="x_-2142421898moz-cite-prefix">Le 23/11/2019 à
15:35, Samuel Gougeon a écrit :<br></div><blockquote><div class="x_-2142421898moz-cite-prefix">Hello<span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"> Philipp,
and to all (former ;-) matlabers,</span><br></div><div class="x_-2142421898moz-cite-prefix"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><br></span></div><div class="x_-2142421898moz-cite-prefix"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"></span>Le
16/10/2019 à 11:46, P M a écrit :<br></div><blockquote><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear experts,<br></div><div><br></div><div>trying to convert a matlab code to scilab I
come across following line:<br></div><div><pre style="font-family: Monospaced;font-style: normal;"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(74, 85, 219)">[~</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">,~,Minstances_hat</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(74, 85, 219)">]</span> <span class="colour" style="color:rgb(92, 92, 92)">=</span> <span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">unique</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(74, 85, 219)">(</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">B</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(74, 85, 219)">(</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(255, 170, 0)">:</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(74, 85, 219)">))</span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">;
</span>
<br></pre><pre style="font-family: Monospaced;font-style: normal;"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">How to replace the "~" symbol?
</span>
<br></pre><pre style="font-family: Monospaced;font-style: normal;"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">B is the blue channel of a RGB image...hence a m x n matrix of integers (type(B) = 8 )
</span>
<br></pre></div></div></blockquote><p><br></p><p>This issue is now reported as <a href="http://bugzilla.scilab.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16254" target="_blank">bug 16250</a>.<br></p><p>Solving this issue would improve the converter.<br> I may contribute to solve it. However, I do not use to
use Matlab or Octave. So i don't know how the ~
placeholder set in the list of <i>inputs</i> is
processed inside the called function. This message is
a call for information about this topic.<br> <br> Ignoring an output is trivial. As suggested by
Stéphane, the ans variable is a good candidate as
replacement for ~,<br> just as a fake recipient, as in "[~, ia] =
unique(A)" => "[ans, ia] = unique(A)"<br></p><p>The meaning of ignoring an input is a priori
completely different, at least from a Scilab point of
view.<br></p><p>This leads to the fact that, on the "function ..."
line, the converter will have to distinguish the list
of inputs from the list of outputs, and then process
the same ~ character in 2 different ways.<br> This processing would have to run also when the
"function ..." line is split on several rows with the
"..." continuation marks.<br> <br> First, i will need an actual example of function call
with ~ in the input list, runnable in Octave.<br> Any compact suggestion is welcome.<br> At least 2 use cases are expected: one calling a
function written in Octave/Matlab language (improperly
called "macros" in Scilab), the other one calling a
hard-coded function.<br></p><p>Let's consider the first case, with a "macro":<br></p><ul><li>What does the ~ sent placeholder pass to the
function? How is it detected/detectable inside the
macro ?<br></li><li>How is it processed by the function? Is there a
generic default processing, as replacing it with the
empty matrix [], or whatever else?<br></li></ul></blockquote><p>Where is the crowd of matlabers?<br></p><div>The page describing this feature:<a class="x_-2142421898moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://fr.mathworks.com/help/matlab/matlab_prog/ignore-function-inputs.html" target="_blank">https://fr.mathworks.com/help/matlab/matlab_prog/ignore-function-inputs.html</a><br></div><div>But i do not clearly understand it.<br></div><div>Apparently, "canceling" an input is done (only?) at
the function definition, not when calling it, unlike for
the outputs.<br></div><div>If so, then <i>ans</i> could also be used as a
replacement, meaning that anyway this input won't be
used inside the function.<br></div><div><br></div><p>A test of call with Octave yields an error:<br></p><p><span style="" class="x_-860490224size">>>
function [r, s] = funtest(a,b,c)<br> end<br> >> funtest(1,~,3)<br> parse error:<br> invalid use of empty argument (~) in index
expression<br> >>> funtest(1,~,3)<br> ^<br> >><br></span></p><div>Any further insight is welcome.<br></div><div>Samuel<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>users mailing list <br></div><div><a target="_blank" href="mailto:users@lists.scilab.org" class="x_-860490224moz-txt-link-abbreviated">users@lists.scilab.org</a> <br></div><div><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users" class="x_-860490224moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users</a> <br></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div><br><br><pre class="x_-860490224moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
users mailing list
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<br></pre></blockquote></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div><br></body></html>