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<p>Hello all,<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/02/2021 10:12, Stéphane Mottelet
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a61842f7-8e72-eef0-fa6e-7a3600f6809f@utc.fr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi,<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 22/02/2021 à 09:43, Clément David
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:PR2PR09MB3562B70B5D2B581E20E1E2FDB0819@PR2PR09MB3562.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for opening the discussion on this
“new user”-related topic, this is always good to improve our
help for existing user and new comers ; to let them havie a
clear understanding of Scilab-lingua. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">One important point to me is to have a
proper distinction between “array” (as values organized in
multiple dimensions) and more precise terms with more
constraints on dimensions “horizontal vector”, “matrix”,
etc… For keeping the rationale up to date, I suggest you to
edit the Localization wiki page [1].<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In term of code update, I can help you
finding duplicated messages but keep in mind that the
build-system create .pot files from the source code. To look
for duplicate, the more important is to upgrade the source
code.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">[1]: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.scilab.org/Localization"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.scilab.org/Localization</a>
in English - Standard messages<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note: AFAK the “constant” term has been
removed on 6.0.0 documentation/error message as this is the
default datatype, in case of advanced type management the
term “decimal” can be used instead.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I think that the "decimal" term has to be discussed. In no way
the default number type in Scilab is decimal (<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal</a>).
Scilab actually displays rounded decimal approximations but
internally they are IEEE754 double-precision floating point
numbers. I think that the "floating point numbers" instead of
"decimal" would be more suitable as is does not make any mention
of the basis. As far as I am concerned, I don't have any problem
with <br>
</p>
<p>"array of floating point numbers"<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
I agree with Stéphane here, "decimal" does not make sense.<br>
It is even deceiving as some languages implement proper base10
"decimal" data type, whereas scilab is defaulting to double
(float64) data representation.<br>
But I think we should go further: "array of double" is even better.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a61842f7-8e72-eef0-fa6e-7a3600f6809f@utc.fr">
<p> </p>
<p>In some contexts, typically when describing the type of
arguments in the documentation of functions, we could be more
precise by making reference to the actual internal object type,
i.e. "double" or "Double", i.e.</p>
<p>array of type double<br>
array of double<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
Yes, that's exactly what I find best.<br>
For comparison, python3 mentions "float" and julia "float64" when
inquiring about the default type of "a=1.1".<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a61842f7-8e72-eef0-fa6e-7a3600f6809f@utc.fr">
<p> </p>
<p>Scilab users are mature enough to accept a bit of technical
(but precise) terms. But this is my personal opinion...<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree, I don't see the point in mentioning something vague that
a true beginner will have to learn anyway: it's better to start
right away with learning the proper term to name the default
datatype of scilab...</p>
<p>Antoine<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a61842f7-8e72-eef0-fa6e-7a3600f6809f@utc.fr">
<p> </p>
<p>S.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:PR2PR09MB3562B70B5D2B581E20E1E2FDB0819@PR2PR09MB3562.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Clément <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> users <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:users-bounces@lists.scilab.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><users-bounces@lists.scilab.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stéphane Mottelet<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 20, 2021 5:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:users@lists.scilab.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">users@lists.scilab.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Scilab-users] Some details on the
documentation of log(), log10(), etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>By looking into the documentation messages I realized that
we already use "array" :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>./locale/de_DE/LC_MESSAGES/scilab.po-e:msgid "%s: Wrong
type for input argument #%d: Array of double expected.\n"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="FR">S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">Le 20/02/2021 à 17:21,
Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Hi Frederico,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In almost all other numerical software the object defined
in Scilab by a=zeros(3,3,3) is called an "array",
m=zeros(3,3) a "matrix" and x=zeros(1,3) or y=zeros(3,1)
"vectors", and all of them are called "arrays". BTW, now
the "hyper" prefix sounds like when it is used in
"hyperspace"... To me, the documentation should be
revamped to always use "array" when the denoted object can
have any number of dimensions and use "matrix" only when
the array has to be a matrix. Concerning your remark about
the "constant vector or constant matrix", yes, this should
be changed by something more explicit, like "array of
double". We already use similar terms in error messages,
i.e.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>"%s: Wrong type for input argument #%d: A matrix of
double expected.\n"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Hence we could synchonize the uses of localized messages
with the documentation. When I say "we" it also includes
"you", Frederico. If you feel that Scilab could be
improved by a better documentation, please contribute. If
you need some help to start using the relevant tools (git,
codereview) I would be glad to help you.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="FR">S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">Le 20/02/2021 à
01:29, Federico Miyara a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Dear
all,<br>
<br>
In an old script where I needed to apply log10 to an
hyperarray I had implemented it as log(A)/log(10) with
a comment indicating that in that version log10()
didn't work for hyperarrays (unfortunately </span>I <span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">don't
recall what version it was).<br>
<br>
In Version 6.1.0 it does work for hyperarrays, but the
documentation still says that it applies to vectors or
matrices:<br>
<br>
</span><a
href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log10.html"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log10.html</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
In some contexts "matrix" may be interpreted as an
hyperarray or hypermatrix (for instance when speaking
of N-D matrices), but for Scilab a matrix is formally
a two-dimensional array:<br>
<br>
</span><a
href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/matrices.html"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/matrices.html</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""> <br>
<br>
I think the documentation should indicate that it
applies to vectors, matrices and hypermatrices<br>
<br>
Another problem is regarding log(). It says that the
input argument is a "constant vector or constant
matrix":<br>
<br>
</span><a
href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log.html"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log.html</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
However, it seems that "constant" has a specific
meaning in Scilab as a predefined variable:<br>
<br>
</span><a
href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/section_421ab29126e21a1e1e403ee27a18fda4.html"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/section_421ab29126e21a1e1e403ee27a18fda4.html</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
As it is worded, it seems that log() is applied to
predefined variables. I think it should refer more
clearly to the type double (it doesn't work, for
instance, for integer types such as int16(2)).<br>
<br>
In the case of log2() the description of arguments is
even stranger:<br>
<br>
</span><a
href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log2.html"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log2.html</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
It confuses the argument section with the description,
and it specifies decimal numbers which isn't a
recognized type.<br>
<br>
The function exp(), on the other hand, doesn't
indicate an output argument.<br>
<br>
I think these functions are very similar and their
documentation pages should be consistent with one
another<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Federico Miyara </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:users@lists.scilab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">users@lists.scilab.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users" moz-do-not-send="true">https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><span lang="FR">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Stéphane Mottelet<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Ingénieur de recherche<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Département Génie des Procédés Industriels<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Tel : +33(0)344234688<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><a href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/www.utc.fr/~mottelet" moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="FR">http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet</span></a><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:users@lists.scilab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">users@lists.scilab.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users" moz-do-not-send="true">https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><span lang="FR">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Stéphane Mottelet<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Ingénieur de recherche<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Département Génie des Procédés Industriels<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="FR">Tel : +33(0)344234688<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><a href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/www.utc.fr/~mottelet" moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="FR">http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet</span></a><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
users mailing list
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users" moz-do-not-send="true">https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Stéphane Mottelet
Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet</a>
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
users mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:users@lists.scilab.org">users@lists.scilab.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users">http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users</a>
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