[Scilab-users] Some details on the documentation of log(), log10(), etc.
Antoine Monmayrant
antoine.monmayrant at laas.fr
Mon Feb 22 14:04:09 CET 2021
Hello all,
On 22/02/2021 10:12, Stéphane Mottelet wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Le 22/02/2021 à 09:43, Clément David a écrit :
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Thanks for opening the discussion on this “new user”-related topic,
>> this is always good to improve our help for existing user and new
>> comers ; to let them havie a clear understanding of Scilab-lingua.
>>
>> One important point to me is to have a proper distinction between
>> “array” (as values organized in multiple dimensions) and more precise
>> terms with more constraints on dimensions “horizontal vector”,
>> “matrix”, etc… For keeping the rationale up to date, I suggest you to
>> edit the Localization wiki page [1].
>>
>> In term of code update, I can help you finding duplicated messages
>> but keep in mind that the build-system create .pot files from the
>> source code. To look for duplicate, the more important is to upgrade
>> the source code.
>>
>> [1]: https://wiki.scilab.org/Localization in English - Standard messages
>>
>> Note: AFAK the “constant” term has been removed on 6.0.0
>> documentation/error message as this is the default datatype, in case
>> of advanced type management the term “decimal” can be used instead.
>>
> I think that the "decimal" term has to be discussed. In no way the
> default number type in Scilab is decimal
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal). Scilab actually displays
> rounded decimal approximations but internally they are IEEE754
> double-precision floating point numbers. I think that the "floating
> point numbers" instead of "decimal" would be more suitable as is does
> not make any mention of the basis. As far as I am concerned, I don't
> have any problem with
>
> "array of floating point numbers"
>
I agree with Stéphane here, "decimal" does not make sense.
It is even deceiving as some languages implement proper base10 "decimal"
data type, whereas scilab is defaulting to double (float64) data
representation.
But I think we should go further: "array of double" is even better.
>
> In some contexts, typically when describing the type of arguments in
> the documentation of functions, we could be more precise by making
> reference to the actual internal object type, i.e. "double" or
> "Double", i.e.
>
> array of type double
> array of double
>
Yes, that's exactly what I find best.
For comparison, python3 mentions "float" and julia "float64" when
inquiring about the default type of "a=1.1".
>
> Scilab users are mature enough to accept a bit of technical (but
> precise) terms. But this is my personal opinion...
>
I agree, I don't see the point in mentioning something vague that a true
beginner will have to learn anyway: it's better to start right away with
learning the proper term to name the default datatype of scilab...
Antoine
> S.
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Clément
>>
>> *From:* users <users-bounces at lists.scilab.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Stéphane Mottelet
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 20, 2021 5:35 PM
>> *To:* users at lists.scilab.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Scilab-users] Some details on the documentation of
>> log(), log10(), etc.
>>
>> By looking into the documentation messages I realized that we already
>> use "array" :
>>
>> ./locale/de_DE/LC_MESSAGES/scilab.po-e:msgid "%s: Wrong type for
>> input argument #%d: Array of double expected.\n"
>>
>> S.
>>
>> Le 20/02/2021 à 17:21, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Frederico,
>>
>> In almost all other numerical software the object defined in
>> Scilab by a=zeros(3,3,3) is called an "array", m=zeros(3,3) a
>> "matrix" and x=zeros(1,3) or y=zeros(3,1) "vectors", and all of
>> them are called "arrays". BTW, now the "hyper" prefix sounds like
>> when it is used in "hyperspace"... To me, the documentation
>> should be revamped to always use "array" when the denoted object
>> can have any number of dimensions and use "matrix" only when the
>> array has to be a matrix. Concerning your remark about the
>> "constant vector or constant matrix", yes, this should be changed
>> by something more explicit, like "array of double". We already
>> use similar terms in error messages, i.e.
>>
>> "%s: Wrong type for input argument #%d: A matrix of double
>> expected.\n"
>>
>> Hence we could synchonize the uses of localized messages with the
>> documentation. When I say "we" it also includes "you", Frederico.
>> If you feel that Scilab could be improved by a better
>> documentation, please contribute. If you need some help to start
>> using the relevant tools (git, codereview) I would be glad to
>> help you.
>>
>> S.
>>
>> Le 20/02/2021 à 01:29, Federico Miyara a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> In an old script where I needed to apply log10 to an
>> hyperarray I had implemented it as log(A)/log(10) with a
>> comment indicating that in that version log10() didn't work
>> for hyperarrays (unfortunately I don't recall what version it
>> was).
>>
>> In Version 6.1.0 it does work for hyperarrays, but the
>> documentation still says that it applies to vectors or matrices:
>>
>> https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log10.html
>> <https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log10.html>
>>
>> In some contexts "matrix" may be interpreted as an hyperarray
>> or hypermatrix (for instance when speaking of N-D matrices),
>> but for Scilab a matrix is formally a two-dimensional array:
>>
>> https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/matrices.html
>> <https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/matrices.html>
>>
>> I think the documentation should indicate that it applies to
>> vectors, matrices and hypermatrices
>>
>> Another problem is regarding log(). It says that the input
>> argument is a "constant vector or constant matrix":
>>
>> https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log.html
>> <https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log.html>
>>
>> However, it seems that "constant" has a specific meaning in
>> Scilab as a predefined variable:
>>
>> https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/section_421ab29126e21a1e1e403ee27a18fda4.html
>> <https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/section_421ab29126e21a1e1e403ee27a18fda4.html>
>>
>> As it is worded, it seems that log() is applied to predefined
>> variables. I think it should refer more clearly to the type
>> double (it doesn't work, for instance, for integer types such
>> as int16(2)).
>>
>> In the case of log2() the description of arguments is even
>> stranger:
>>
>> https://help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log2.html
>> <https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/antispam.utc.fr/proxy/2/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/help.scilab.org/docs/6.1.0/en_US/log2.html>
>>
>> It confuses the argument section with the description, and it
>> specifies decimal numbers which isn't a recognized type.
>>
>> The function exp(), on the other hand, doesn't indicate an
>> output argument.
>>
>> I think these functions are very similar and their
>> documentation pages should be consistent with one another
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Federico Miyara
>>
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>>
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>> --
>>
>> Stéphane Mottelet
>>
>> Ingénieur de recherche
>>
>> EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
>>
>> Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
>>
>> Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
>>
>> CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
>>
>> Tel : +33(0)344234688
>>
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>> --
>> Stéphane Mottelet
>> Ingénieur de recherche
>> EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
>> Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
>> Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
>> CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
>> Tel : +33(0)344234688
>> http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet <https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/www.utc.fr/~mottelet>
>>
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> --
> Stéphane Mottelet
> Ingénieur de recherche
> EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
> Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
> Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
> CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
> Tel : +33(0)344234688
> http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.scilab.org
> http://lists.scilab.org/mailman/listinfo/users
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